Nandini Bhardwaj from Patiala, Punjab pursued MSc in Clinical Psychology from Christ University, Bangalore and is an ally. I got to know her when she was doing a one-of-its-kind research on romantic relationships in India, which also merged aspects of mental health with a comparative study and gender analysis. It included subjects regardless of their gender or sexuality. Since such areas of study remain unexplored in India, I thought of speaking to her about her research, findings and perspective in detail. Here’s the full conversation:
Queertopia: Hey Nandini! Please tell me a bit about yourself.
Nandini: Hi! I am from a small town in Punjab named Patiala. Currently I am in Christ University Bangalore, three days away from getting my degree in M.Sc. Clinical Psychology.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your research and what made you take it up.
Nandini: We were asked to choose a dissertation topic two years ago and I understood the need to fill in the glaring gaps in our social science literature. It was inherently hetero-sexist. I have been an LGBT ally for almost five years now. I care about LGBT research and representation in academics. So I took up a research topic merging mental health with my vision for an exclusive study. It was a pilot study which saw the current trends in India pertaining to romantic relationships. I did a comparative study and gender analysis of the population at hand. The results have been beautiful and India tends to reproduce the results we see in the West. Hence, love everywhere follows the same rhythm, no matter the gender or orientation- this became the subliminal message of my study.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your subjects. Did you do some kind of field study as well, or was your survey completely online? Were your subjects spread across different castes, religion, social strata, etc.?
Nandini: My subjects were geographically from a lot of places in India but it was really just an online data collection process since I had very little time at my disposal. The subjects were mostly from the big cities of India minus a few participants I talked to who were from Guwahati and Gujarat. As the results were supposed to be confidential and the population and topic really sensitive (even for the heterosexual couples), I tried not asking too many questions about their lives. I feel the population was predominantly Hindu and yes, middle class, there were people from different castes too, some that I know of. I will be compiling data again for my MPhil now that I have measured the trends and expand this research to more people, genders and orientations.
Qtopia: Do you know of any other similar research that might have been done in India before this?
Nandini: No. As far as my review of literature is concerned, this was never taken up by anyone in India. A few researchers in the West have taken this up but comparison studies are very limited, only a handful. No one wants to do that because one, if results favours the heterosexual subjects, they might stand against the interests of the gender/sexual minority and two, if results favour the minorities, it might stand contradictory to the law. It tends to be controversial.
Qtopia: What do you have to say about the lack of research pertaining to issues concerning the gender/sexual minority? What do you think is the consequence of this?
Nandini: I think it's only natural. I think most researchers likes to cater to the majority so that their research impacts the most number of people and the knowledge created reaches to people who are mostly 'talked about', etc. I think they feel that most consumers, readers are the heterosexual middle class population. But as people are coming out of the closets, mental health facilities are working for transgenders; media hasstarted talking people who identify as pansexual, skoliosexual, asexual, etc. So, contemporary qualitative research is expanding its dimension to these areas as well. But I wanted to make my research scientific and appropriate, not a saga of the 'other side of the population' where people just talk about important experiences but that doesn't really help. It becomes a paper you read and forget. Quantitative study takes into account many people and that matters. When you see something in numbers, work begins, progress happens, change emerges.
Qtopia: That's wonderful. However, you said that your research mostly included middle class Hindu subjects. Don't you think that even when such research is done, it falls short somewhere, given the fact that lower castes like Dalits have little to no representation in these? Do you think such research presents the true picture?
Nandini: You're correct here. If we interpolate the LGB population in India, we stand at 20 million according to the Hindustan Times. Most of them will be non-lower caste Hindus but that is no excuse though for the glaring loopholes of misrepresentation. But that's how research works. You take in a small sample and generalise your results to the overall population. And if you just do a research for the Dalit population for instance, it is great but that will then be treated as a secluded research. My idea is of appreciating diversity by including people from everywhere. I will be expanding the scope of my research to more people across castes, genders and sexualities.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your perception of how clinical psychology can explore LGBTQI-related areas.
Nandini: I have clients who come to me because they are clinically depressed, were abused as a child by an uncle who knows 'her secret', bipolar, or just teens who run away with their partners at a young age, which is dangerous. Clinical Psychology therapies can be moulded to work around these issues. Psychoeducating people about gender, gender dysphoria, different sexualities are just really important. Just as much as sex education. I feel that if we work with families, many of them would have closeted kids, uncles, grandmoms, who knows who! So therapies of Clinical Psychology can be made more inclusive to address family issues, disorders and abuse besides creating awareness. The scope of Clinical Psychology is very vast! It was DSM-3 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health and Disorders) which first removed homosexuality from becoming a disorder. It issued statements concerning mental health too. It brought about tremendous reduction of these clinics where people send their children to 'change their sexual interests'. Psychology can really help destigmatise.
Qtopia: What do you think about facilities of psychological assistance for LGBTQI people in India? Do you think they're adequate and good enough?
Nandini: The services are rather limited and definitely not accessible to a majority of the population. People may still want to treat a transgender uniquely with qualified doctors for matters of sex change operations and the like but we don’t have many psychologists working for the LGBTQI. Maybe a few counsellors but that's limited, and we as students learn nothing regarding this issue in our classrooms. We hear of Freud writing a letter to the mother of a gay boy and that's that. I fear for people who have mental illnesses and identify as LGBTQI, because these facilities often aren’t inclusive enough. I worked with a government hospital in my town and we provided free of cost therapy sessions. I do realize that there’s a lot of stigma attached with seeking psychological help in this regard.
Qtopia: What do you have to say about a few doctors themselves (like in Delhi) offering to "cure" homosexual people?
Nandini: I heard about these doctors who charge ten lakhs to cure homosexuality. They use principles of aversive conditioning. If someone electrocutes me every day each time I feel for a woman, I will be scared for my life and tell them I am straight now. They manipulate and torture you. Eventually you will be so scared to have a same-sex relationship. Hence, the homosexuality is 'cured.' Then you might be forced to marry a straight person, unhappily ever after. Consequences are very far-fetched!
Qtopia: Do you plan to explore any other areas of gender/sexuality, as may be relevant to clinical psychology?
Nandini: I want to work with patients of clinical depression who identify as LGBTQI and propose a model/therapy that can help them reach out to an expert and for us to curb their suicide ideations, increase general life productivity and help them with social rehabilitation. People from certain minority sections may come face to face with problems at their workplace. I want to research further and help the youth from becoming homeless, jobless , etc. I want to educate them to be counsellors and help their fellow peers and increase a feeling of community that we all need for survival. So much to do and so little time. Phew!
Qtopia: Thank you so much for this interview. Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Nandini: Thank you so much for being so creative with your initiative. Good luck! I just want to say that change is happening all around us. I was initially told to not choose this topic because it is not a legally recognized area. But I did anyway and they accepted my dissertation. We mustn’t lose hope.
Follow Queertopia and The Visibility Campaign.
If you identify as the gender/sexual minority or are an ally, write to us at [email protected] to have your voice heard.
Queertopia: Hey Nandini! Please tell me a bit about yourself.
Nandini: Hi! I am from a small town in Punjab named Patiala. Currently I am in Christ University Bangalore, three days away from getting my degree in M.Sc. Clinical Psychology.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your research and what made you take it up.
Nandini: We were asked to choose a dissertation topic two years ago and I understood the need to fill in the glaring gaps in our social science literature. It was inherently hetero-sexist. I have been an LGBT ally for almost five years now. I care about LGBT research and representation in academics. So I took up a research topic merging mental health with my vision for an exclusive study. It was a pilot study which saw the current trends in India pertaining to romantic relationships. I did a comparative study and gender analysis of the population at hand. The results have been beautiful and India tends to reproduce the results we see in the West. Hence, love everywhere follows the same rhythm, no matter the gender or orientation- this became the subliminal message of my study.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your subjects. Did you do some kind of field study as well, or was your survey completely online? Were your subjects spread across different castes, religion, social strata, etc.?
Nandini: My subjects were geographically from a lot of places in India but it was really just an online data collection process since I had very little time at my disposal. The subjects were mostly from the big cities of India minus a few participants I talked to who were from Guwahati and Gujarat. As the results were supposed to be confidential and the population and topic really sensitive (even for the heterosexual couples), I tried not asking too many questions about their lives. I feel the population was predominantly Hindu and yes, middle class, there were people from different castes too, some that I know of. I will be compiling data again for my MPhil now that I have measured the trends and expand this research to more people, genders and orientations.
Qtopia: Do you know of any other similar research that might have been done in India before this?
Nandini: No. As far as my review of literature is concerned, this was never taken up by anyone in India. A few researchers in the West have taken this up but comparison studies are very limited, only a handful. No one wants to do that because one, if results favours the heterosexual subjects, they might stand against the interests of the gender/sexual minority and two, if results favour the minorities, it might stand contradictory to the law. It tends to be controversial.
Qtopia: What do you have to say about the lack of research pertaining to issues concerning the gender/sexual minority? What do you think is the consequence of this?
Nandini: I think it's only natural. I think most researchers likes to cater to the majority so that their research impacts the most number of people and the knowledge created reaches to people who are mostly 'talked about', etc. I think they feel that most consumers, readers are the heterosexual middle class population. But as people are coming out of the closets, mental health facilities are working for transgenders; media hasstarted talking people who identify as pansexual, skoliosexual, asexual, etc. So, contemporary qualitative research is expanding its dimension to these areas as well. But I wanted to make my research scientific and appropriate, not a saga of the 'other side of the population' where people just talk about important experiences but that doesn't really help. It becomes a paper you read and forget. Quantitative study takes into account many people and that matters. When you see something in numbers, work begins, progress happens, change emerges.
Qtopia: That's wonderful. However, you said that your research mostly included middle class Hindu subjects. Don't you think that even when such research is done, it falls short somewhere, given the fact that lower castes like Dalits have little to no representation in these? Do you think such research presents the true picture?
Nandini: You're correct here. If we interpolate the LGB population in India, we stand at 20 million according to the Hindustan Times. Most of them will be non-lower caste Hindus but that is no excuse though for the glaring loopholes of misrepresentation. But that's how research works. You take in a small sample and generalise your results to the overall population. And if you just do a research for the Dalit population for instance, it is great but that will then be treated as a secluded research. My idea is of appreciating diversity by including people from everywhere. I will be expanding the scope of my research to more people across castes, genders and sexualities.
Qtopia: Tell me a bit about your perception of how clinical psychology can explore LGBTQI-related areas.
Nandini: I have clients who come to me because they are clinically depressed, were abused as a child by an uncle who knows 'her secret', bipolar, or just teens who run away with their partners at a young age, which is dangerous. Clinical Psychology therapies can be moulded to work around these issues. Psychoeducating people about gender, gender dysphoria, different sexualities are just really important. Just as much as sex education. I feel that if we work with families, many of them would have closeted kids, uncles, grandmoms, who knows who! So therapies of Clinical Psychology can be made more inclusive to address family issues, disorders and abuse besides creating awareness. The scope of Clinical Psychology is very vast! It was DSM-3 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health and Disorders) which first removed homosexuality from becoming a disorder. It issued statements concerning mental health too. It brought about tremendous reduction of these clinics where people send their children to 'change their sexual interests'. Psychology can really help destigmatise.
Qtopia: What do you think about facilities of psychological assistance for LGBTQI people in India? Do you think they're adequate and good enough?
Nandini: The services are rather limited and definitely not accessible to a majority of the population. People may still want to treat a transgender uniquely with qualified doctors for matters of sex change operations and the like but we don’t have many psychologists working for the LGBTQI. Maybe a few counsellors but that's limited, and we as students learn nothing regarding this issue in our classrooms. We hear of Freud writing a letter to the mother of a gay boy and that's that. I fear for people who have mental illnesses and identify as LGBTQI, because these facilities often aren’t inclusive enough. I worked with a government hospital in my town and we provided free of cost therapy sessions. I do realize that there’s a lot of stigma attached with seeking psychological help in this regard.
Qtopia: What do you have to say about a few doctors themselves (like in Delhi) offering to "cure" homosexual people?
Nandini: I heard about these doctors who charge ten lakhs to cure homosexuality. They use principles of aversive conditioning. If someone electrocutes me every day each time I feel for a woman, I will be scared for my life and tell them I am straight now. They manipulate and torture you. Eventually you will be so scared to have a same-sex relationship. Hence, the homosexuality is 'cured.' Then you might be forced to marry a straight person, unhappily ever after. Consequences are very far-fetched!
Qtopia: Do you plan to explore any other areas of gender/sexuality, as may be relevant to clinical psychology?
Nandini: I want to work with patients of clinical depression who identify as LGBTQI and propose a model/therapy that can help them reach out to an expert and for us to curb their suicide ideations, increase general life productivity and help them with social rehabilitation. People from certain minority sections may come face to face with problems at their workplace. I want to research further and help the youth from becoming homeless, jobless , etc. I want to educate them to be counsellors and help their fellow peers and increase a feeling of community that we all need for survival. So much to do and so little time. Phew!
Qtopia: Thank you so much for this interview. Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Nandini: Thank you so much for being so creative with your initiative. Good luck! I just want to say that change is happening all around us. I was initially told to not choose this topic because it is not a legally recognized area. But I did anyway and they accepted my dissertation. We mustn’t lose hope.
Follow Queertopia and The Visibility Campaign.
If you identify as the gender/sexual minority or are an ally, write to us at [email protected] to have your voice heard.